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MY atv (chinese made) 4 wheeler, will not start

  
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MY atv (chinese made) 4 wheeler, will not start

 
LynnEdwards LynnEdwards
User | Posts: 122 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/02/09
10:30 PM

Icon Quoteatv001:
its a 150cc.  I do have a meter.  what kind of readings should I be looking for when checking the resistance?

This atv have a handle bar brake and a right foot brake.  where / how should I go about testing for the brake light issue?

Thanks for all your help.


Re: Brake Switch:

Neither brake switch works?  Both front and rear brake switches are wired in parallel.  What that means is that either of them will satisfy the interlock. Start with the rear switch because the wires are easier to find because there is only two of them.  The rear brake foot lever pulls on a spring which pulls on a switch mounted up under the right wheel well.  There are two wires coming off this switch going about a foot or so to a connector.  Unplug this connector and measure the resistance across the switch wires (not the harness wires).  Set your meter to ohms on any scale from 10 to 200 ohms.  The switch should read open (infinite resistance).  Then as you manually pull down on the switch plunger the switch resistance should go to zero ohms.  If it doesn't, your switch is bad and you will need to replace it.

Now turn on the ignition switch and grab the wiring harness connector that plugs into the brake switch.  Use a wire, pair of pliers, or anything metalic to short the two harness pins together.  Does the brake light come on?  

Switch the meter to measure DC volts (not AC)of the 20 volt scale.  Measure the voltage from each pin in the wiring harness (red probe) to engine ground (black probe).  The ignition switch should still be on for this test.  One of the two wires should have 12 volts on it.

No Spark:

Unplug the CDI (picture of it follows).  Find the kill switch pin in the wiring harness.  Measure the resistance to engine ground.  Set the meter to ohms on the 200 ohm (or so) scale.  The red meter lead on the kill switch wire, and black lead on engine ground.  When doing this test you should have all kill switches off, and the ignition switch must be turned to the run position.  You should measure infinite resistance (open).  Then if you activate a kill switch, or turn off the ignition the resistance should go to zero ohms.  If you read zero ohms all the time then you've isolated the spark problem to kill switch issues and we can look deeper.  Else we will have to do more tests to look elsewhere.

Picture of the CDI:

CDI Pinout

In the next message I will post a wiring diagram of my 150cc quad.  I wouldn't be surprised if is is identical to yours: You may have to use the horizontal scroll bar following the second page of the schematic to see the right hand side.  Or you can right click on each picture and choose "save as..." to save the jpegs to your hard drive.

I'm putting this in a separate post because the wide width of the JPEGs messes up the text formatting for the whole message when I include it here.  

 
LynnEdwards LynnEdwards
User | Posts: 122 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/02/09
10:31 PM

Quadschematic1

Quadschematic2  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/03/09
04:34 AM

The brake issue is fixed. The spring that pulls the switch down when the brakes is pushed was not working.  When I pull the switch down manually the brake lights work and the push start button cranks the engine.  I will start troubleshooting the no spark issue.  Thanks for the CDI diagram and the wiring diagram.  I will keep you posted.  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/04/09
03:22 PM

I checked the resistance on the kill switch pin from the wiring harness, with the ignition turned on and the kill switch off - I am getting readings ranging from 77 to 10.  Once the kill switch is turned on or if the ignition is off, the resistance stays at 1.  

 
LynnEdwards LynnEdwards
User | Posts: 122 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/04/09
11:16 PM

Icon Quoteatv001:
I checked the resistance on the kill switch pin from the wiring harness, with the ignition turned on and the kill switch off - I am getting readings ranging from 77 to 10.  Once the kill switch is turned on or if the ignition is off, the resistance stays at 1.

Uh Oh.  It reads 77 to 10 what?  Ohms, KiloOhms, MegOhms?  The resistance scales cover a very broad range of values - from a dead short to the resistance of a piece of tree bark (which is very high).  The meter display gives a number, but the other really important part is the scale info.

1 MegOhm is 1000 KilOhms.

1 KiloOhm is 1000 ohms.

If you are measuring ohms then 10-77 ohms is no good - you definately have kill switch issues.  Then the next step is to disconnect this wire from the CDI by removing the pin right at the CDI.  Then plug the rest of the wiring harness into the CDI and see if the quad will start up.

CAUTION: If the quad starts with the kill wire disconnected you will have no way to shut off the quad since you will have defeated all the kill circuitry.  Also, the kill switch pin has high voltage on it (at idle it could be 200 volts or more).  Before you do this make sure you can reconnect the kill wire to the CDI with insulated pliers in a timely fashion.  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/06/09
02:59 PM

The readings were in Ohms.  I checked it again and got readings ranging from 10 to 185 Ohms.  I disconnected the kill switch pin from the CDI and still no go (no spark, does not start).  I tested the black wire that connects to the Ignition coil while the cranking the engine, the power is ranging from 3 to 12.5 Volts.  Do you think the problem is with the ignition coil?  

 
LynnEdwards LynnEdwards
User | Posts: 122 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/07/09
05:26 PM

10 to 185 ohms is just wrong.  You've got kill switch problems that will have to addressed.

But you also say the quad won't start with the kill switch wire disconnected.  So the kill switch problem is not involved now.  Are you sure that no spark is still the reason the quad isn't starting? Did you verify that you still aren't getting spark now that the kill switch wire is disconnected, or did you just assume its no spark because it has been up til now?

If you are still having no spark with the kill wire disconnected then unplug the CDI and measure the voltage on the AC ignition power pin in the wiring harness to engine ground.  Do this while cranking the engine with the starter motor, and be sure your meter is set to measure AC volts on a fairly high scale (like 200 volts).  You should measure about 80 volts AC.

Do the same test on the Ignition trigger pin to engine ground (engine cranking), but this time the voltage should be low - around 0.2 to 0l5 volts AC - but it should not be zero.

You can't measure the voltage on the ignition coil primary with a voltmeter.  You need an oscilloscope for that.  Other than measuring continuity of the ignition coil windings you really can't test the coil other than replacing it.  But before blindly changing stuff I'd eliminate all the other stuff that can be measured.  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/09/09
06:21 AM

I am definately still not getting a spark with the kill switch wire disconnected from the CDI.  I will check the voltages on the AC ignition power pin and Ignition trigger pin and let you know what I get.

Is there anything else I need to check with regards to the Kill Switch low resistance issue?  

 
LynnEdwards LynnEdwards
User | Posts: 122 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/09/09
10:11 PM

The kill switch wiring goes to several kill switches, any one of which can kill the spark by shorting the kill wiring to ground.  For the engine to run *all* of the switches must be open (infinite reistance).  To find the switch causing your problem start unplugging each of the kill switches on by one until the resistance goes to infinity (open).  Then you've found your bad switch.  If you unplug all of the switches then the kill switch wire is pinched somewhere and shorted to ground.  Obviously before doing this test you need to have the kill switches turned off, and the ignition switch must be on.

The kill switches are (not all quads have all of these):

1) The igntion switch (one half of the two pole ignition switch is a kill switch - this is what turns off your engine when you turn the switch off).

2) The left handlebar kill switch.

3) A tether strap wrist kill switch.  Usually tied to the operators wrist so that if he/she falls off the quad stops.  

4) Remote control module.  Allows a radio link remote to kill the engine on kid quads.  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/10/09
04:33 AM

On the AC ignition power pin I am only getting 50 to 55 Volts AC and on the Ignition trigger pin 0 Volts AC while cranking the engine.  These are not the readings you suggested I should be getting, what could be the problem?


Kill Switch:

I don't have a tether strap wrist kill switch or a Remote control module.  That leaves the left handlebar kill switch and The ignition switch.  I will look into those two.  

 
LynnEdwards LynnEdwards
User | Posts: 122 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/10/09
09:40 PM

Approximately 50 volts AC is lower than mine but I think it should still work.  The zero voltage reading on the concerns me.  Remember that this voltage is really low at 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC.  I just want to make sure you were using a low enough scale to see it.

Try measuring the resistance of the trigger wire to ground (engine stopped - ignition off).  It should be 140 ohms or so if I recall correctly.  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/11/09
04:15 AM

I think I had the meter set @ 200 volts AC I will set it lower and retest.  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/13/09
04:29 AM

I retested the Ignition trigger pin with a different meter and am getting between 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC.  I went ahead and change the Ignition coil and spark plug and now I am getting a spark on the first time the engine cranks only - still does not start.  If I keep trying to start, no spark on the plug, If I let the ATV sit for a couple of minutes and then try to start it, I will get an initial spark, but none after that.  

 
LynnEdwards LynnEdwards
User | Posts: 122 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/13/09
06:18 PM

You've got a slightly more difficult problem now since you sometimes have spark and sometimes not.  What that means is that you must now make all measurements simultaneous with checking for spark, because you can only use "no spark" measurement results for troubleshooting.

Also, changing working components with other working components shouldn't change the symptoms of the problem.  The malfunctioning quad should still malfunction exactly the same, unless you have multiple problems.  

So far you've had bad brake switches (both front and rear), kill switch issues (still unresolved but out of the picture for now since the kill switch wiring is disconnected), some sort of problem with the coil and/or plug since changing them now gives you partial spark, and still some other problem as of yet unresolved.  This quad must have an interesting history.

Since you still have the kill switch wire at the CDI disconnected measure the voltage on this pin of the CDi while cranking the engine and *not* getting spark.  What is the DC voltage and what is the AC voltage to ground at this point.  This is a complicated waveform with DC and AC components so measure both.  

 
atv001 atv001
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 09/22/09
04:55 AM

A local car mechanic told me that if I test the voltage on the ignition coil with an analog meter, I should see a break in the current while cranking the engine (the needle on the meter should go to zero and then spike back up).  According to him every time the voltage drops to zero and then spikes back up it should produce a spark @ the plug.  

I borrowed his analog meter and when I did this test, the meter goes from 0 to 12 and then it stays constant (does not go back to 0 and spike back up).  According to him that’s why I am only getting an initial spark to the plug but nothing after that.  He wasn’t sure if it is the CDI or the Stator that is responsible for regulating the voltage.  Does anyone know?  

Also where is the Stator, how do I get to it to verify all the connections, is there anything I can test to verify if the stator is working correctly?  

 
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